Read my interview with an Indonesian new music composer Septian Dwi Cahyo. He develops his own post-new sources musical perspective where he in a playful way combines elements from both Indonesian traditional and western academic music. One of the ideas in his work is using a new source music approach where he transforms different elements to give them a new meaning. Interview text version was created by Armands Stefans Sargsuns.

He studied composition with Beat Furrer at the University of Music and Performing Arts Graz. His pieces have been and are being performed in Southeast Asia, Europe, the U.S., East Asia, and Mexico by ensembles/musicians such as Orkest de Ereprijs, the Talea Ensemble, Caroline Delume (Linea), Studio Musikfabrik x ASEAN Youth Ensemble, Ensemble Mosaik, etc. in festivals/labs such as Southeast Asia Young Composers Competition and Festival 2013, MUSLAB 2018, Shanghai New Music Week, 21st Young Composers Meeting, Asia Culture Centre, Manila Composers Lab, Nusasonic ‘Common Tonalities’, and Talea Encores.

How would you define a good musical composition?

Generally speaking I don’t have an answer to this question, because each person has their own musical taste. As for me, one thing that a composition must have is a well established connection between the idea and the material, so the music expresses the idea. On the contrary, a musical composition becomes “bad” when the idea and the realisation are not connected with one another.

What is your musical signature?

I randomly wrote an article trying to explain my music more into detail. At the time I also wrote an article about post new source music in an attempt to continue the concept of it (new source music by Paul Gutama Soegijo). The composer who created this concept comes from a family with many generations of composers. What new source music was trying to achieve is the liberation of a musical structure from the context of tradition. It sees the material or the object as neutral, so it’s not seen as a means of destroying tradition, but, instead, it’s perceived with the potential to open new doors and reach new horizons.

Based on the idea of new source music, I create my compositions. The way I incorporate is that I let the musical structure be free from its cultural background, so it transforms to become a new thing, to get a new function or manner. Technology is an important tool that helps me to achieve that. For instance, when I want to transform a structural marker in gamelan to become a harmonic structure, I use a spectrum analyzer to output and analyse the timbre of the instruments from gamelan which has a role as a structural marker. To transform from one musical language to another technology is the tool that helps me the most, but it’s nothing too extraordinary.

Can you elaborate on what is gamelan and its place in your compositions?

Gamelan is a music tradition in South-East Asia and it has roots in various regions in Indonesia as well, such as Bali, etc. It’s essentially an ensemble of percussion that mostly involves metal instruments as well as membrane and plug instruments. The set is an integral part of my music and it’s one of the things that define my musical signature.

Do you incorporate Indonesian music traditions in Western settings?

One of the ways I’m working is with one analogy. The perspective that I have in mind is that, for example, I have a tree that I cut down to make new things. Then they have new functions and shapes. Applying the analogy with the tree, it becomes a table or a chair, so the function and the context too is already transformed.

Can you elaborate on the use of different musical languages in your music?

It doesn’t come from a postmodern thought, such as mimicry or parody. The citation in my work is about a result which is the transformation of a resume. It’s not dualistic or a linear movement that’s why the quote can also describe my work, because I’m not developing tradition in a linear way. The result in a traditional context incorporates atomic instruments, function as a structural marker, but in my piece it has already been transformed to become a harmonic structure. At that point you can’t easily find the element of gamelan in the piece, because it’s been transformed into something new. I use the result metaphor from the loose, but it hasn’t come from the postmodernism idea, because I didn’t just quote materials from the tradition and then just put them in my piece.

What is your process of composing?

My process can be defined by the term “top down”. What I mean by that is I begin the process with a big general idea before going into the details of the material to realise the idea. Conceptually my work is about standing on a threshold between two cultures and the main idea is to observe how to move away from the dualistic perspective that has emerged in Indonesia since the 1930s. The debate is about the direction of culture — whether it will continue to cherish local traditions or whether it will follow the values of the West. I try to diverge from the debate to find another option. Then I begin to process the materials to realise the idea. At the end of the day it’s difficult to avoid the discussion about the East and the West, so I just combine the elements from both worlds. To sum up the process, it begins with a concept, then I move on to the form and the material and after that I write the music.

How has your music changed?

My music is strongly tied with the topic of interculturality and cultural background in new music. I always try to change up something, because of the fact that if I stick to one concept or style, I’ll get bored. One of the turning points was in 2020 when I began to explore my cultural identity and I started asking many questions about it. I can’t delete the encoded cultural identity I have, so I started to play with it. Given that I was born in Indonesia and I studied in the West, I have experienced many cultures and I incorporate them in my work.

What technology do you use in your creative process?

My process does involve some technological tools, but nothing very high-tech, such as AI and so on. There is always a possibility that I might start using it, but that’ll happen in the future. I’ve done some spectrum analysis and algorithms to process the material so that I can achieve my idea. For example, for one of my gamelan pieces I analysed some behaviours from the traditions and the pattern and I used them as an input to be processed by the algorithm to create a new behaviour. The algorithmic elements in my musical idea are actually connected to the calculation traditions in Indonesian cultures. For example, people calculate their names to determine wedding dates and also to decide on their children’s names.

As for software, I use Max MSP to coding and there are other softwares for which I can’t recall the names. I’ve also created ‘hardware’ for my collaborative work. Once my friends and I were challenged to create music using a tennis table, so we recorded a sound every time the ball hit the table and it was connected to Max MSP.

What do you fear the most as a composer?

I’m actually not sure if I have any major fear. When I have rehearsals, of course, there are some bad or unexpected things that may occur, but it’s a part of the process to realise the music itself. If I need to change a part of a piece because of technical issues, I’ll be fine with it as long as the aesthetics or the main idea won’t be affected by it.

Having said that, I ask myself one question quite a bit: Is my music really a reflection of myself? This is one of my concerns, because I’m afraid of making music that is following the market to get funds and commissions more easily. For that reason I ask myself questions about culture before I start working on a new piece. There was a time where I questioned the path I wanted to follow as a composer, it was mostly about either going in an already-known direction or finding my own way. So I suppose I’m afraid of losing myself and my ‘authenticity’ at some point

Why do you still compose?

Purely because of my belief that music allows me to express myself more easily, rather than words or other media. For example, if you feel frustrated and you put your emotions on paper with words, it won’t be the same as screaming or listening to a very loud part of a piece. It feels to me that hearing those explosions of sound will heal your burdens, so it comes from a personal point of view. Music has become a reflection of my thoughts and personal things and it’s the media that allows me to express them in the best way possible.

How has music changed?

It’s really difficult to generalise the progression of change. I was born in Indonesia, but I have also worked abroad and I’ve seen different things, so it really depends on which region you want to focus on. Every culture has its own issues and they’re reflected in the music. For example, in Europe there’s a lot of discussion about the relationship between AI and music as well as other issues. Comparing it to the Indonesian scene, the main topic covers intercultural things and the involvement of local culture. Of course, there are composers who work with technology on top of that, so it really depends on the cultural background of each region.

Looking at the composers on the Indonesian new music scene, there are two groups of artists. One of the groups would be the people who draw inspiration from Western music trends and aesthetics. The other part has a local background, so regional music traditions are very integral to their work and they aren’t necessarily influenced by what’s happening in the West. From what I can tell, people from younger generations are starting to deal with both at the same time and there are composers who play in between the two groups. Culture just doesn’t stay at one place and it always keeps evolving, therefore you’re free to play around with musical words, languages and different concepts.

How has the new music audience changed?

There are big festivals for new music in Indonesia that have been happening for decades. Having said that, most people have been influenced by the previous genres and styles of music, such as classicism, romanticism and so on, therefore they have a close-minded perspective towards new music. They already have a mindset that music should resemble qualities that Mozart, Beethoven and other composers from the time had implemented in their work, so it’s difficult to open their minds to contemporary music.

For example, one of my friends is an experimental saxophonist and I took him to a more remote part of the country where people (villagers) don’t have a reference about the classical styles of music. He organised a workshop in a village and played some experimental pieces during it and the audience had a very positive response to it. Despite the fact that they hadn’t had any exposure to experimental music, their ears were more open to the experience compared to the audience who are educated in classical music.

What is the direction of the new music scene in Indonesia?

Globalisation is happening at a faster rate than it was previously, for example, 1970s and 1990s. I think at the time it was difficult to attend master classes and academies abroad, and get referrals to attend composition courses outside of Indonesia. Nowadays, it’s a lot easier to access different information, especially about what’s happening abroad, so that may become a factor of influence. Maybe the inspiration taken from European and American music trends will grow. However, I’m sure that the two groups of composers I mentioned previously (those who draw inspiration from the West and those who focus on local traditions) will continue to work, but, surely, there will be many forms of progression.

What is the role of new music in Indonesian society?

In my opinion, there is no specific function of new music in society. Music can be used to heal anxiety as well as for other things. I believe that new music, just like any art form, can also become a mirror for people to look at themselves and the society they live in. There are composers in Indonesia who look at ecological issues and post-truth and other important topics. Ultimately, new music is a way to see what has happened in the country and society through art, so that can be counted as a role. Composers and artists are a part of the society and we have a representative role.

What advice would you give to an up-and-coming composer?

I’m still considered a part of up-and-coming or young composers, therefore I don’t think I can give you an answer to this question yet.